Railway nationalisation

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Thursday 1 June 2017 11.53am
So Corbyn wants to re-nationalise the railways.

Would it be possible without Brexit?

Hoey thinks not http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/08/renationalise-railways-what-no-one-will-tell-you-we-cant-while-were-eu

Reads to me like a kind of in house TTIP type thing.
Thursday 1 June 2017 12.14pm
Being in the EU has not stopped the French government from owning 100% of SNCF, its national railway.

SNCF runs almost all of the rail services of France.

In Italy most of the trains are run by Trenitalia, which is 100% government owned. A similar situation exists in Germany with its DB state owned company.
Thursday 1 June 2017 2.01pm
Yes but it's not a completely nationalised situation, they are state owned, fair enough. I think there is one or two franchises owned by the state in this country.

They are all open to competition, what is the likelihood of the state owning 100% in this country, what with Virgin etc tendering?

Those examples will be without government subsidies I would imagine and competitive companies in their own right, also they are extremely reasonably priced so it would be difficult for a private company to tender cheaper, don't think that would be the case here. Or would it?
Thursday 1 June 2017 3.19pm
Just heard on the radio that in Italy and Germany the government pay for 50% of the ticket prices. I'm confused, it seems the state can intervene after all. Presumably if a private company won the franchise off of, say, the Italian government, that would still be the case.

I know we own the tracks, not sure if that's the case in other European countries.
Thursday 1 June 2017 3.45pm
In the European countries I mentioned, the national rail companies own the rail infrastructure, as well as the rolling stock. There are some limited private franchises, but all rail travel is subsidized by the respective governments.

That is why it is so much cheaper to travel by rail in continental Europe than it is in the UK where rail travel is a business aimed at making money for the shareholders.
Friday 2 June 2017 10.27am
Jules62 wrote:
In the European countries I mentioned, the national rail companies own the rail infrastructure, as well as the rolling stock. There are some limited private franchises, but all rail travel is subsidized by the respective governments.
That is why it is so much cheaper to travel by rail in continental Europe than it is in the UK where rail travel is a business aimed at making money for the shareholders.

Fair enough Jules, you've educated me. I may be being pedantic here, but I still think that there's a difference between state owned companies and a nationalised rail network.
Friday 2 June 2017 4.13pm
boroughonian wrote:
Jules62 wrote:
In the European countries I mentioned, the national rail companies own the rail infrastructure, as well as the rolling stock. There are some limited private franchises, but all rail travel is subsidized by the respective governments.
That is why it is so much cheaper to travel by rail in continental Europe than it is in the UK where rail travel is a business aimed at making money for the shareholders.

Fair enough Jules, you've educated me. I may be being pedantic here, but I still think that there's a difference between state owned companies and a nationalised rail network.

You should explain, then, what is the difference between the two.

The examples I provided are of the railways of a few European countries that are owned and controlled by the respective governments, in a similar way to how British Rail was once owned and controlled by the British government before privatization.
Friday 2 June 2017 5.30pm
Jules62 wrote:
boroughonian wrote:
Jules62 wrote:
In the European countries I mentioned, the national rail companies own the rail infrastructure, as well as the rolling stock. There are some limited private franchises, but all rail travel is subsidized by the respective governments.
That is why it is so much cheaper to travel by rail in continental Europe than it is in the UK where rail travel is a business aimed at making money for the shareholders.

Fair enough Jules, you've educated me. I may be being pedantic here, but I still think that there's a difference between state owned companies and a nationalised rail network.

You should explain, then, what is the difference between the two.

The examples I provided are of the railways of a few European countries that are owned and controlled by the respective governments, in a similar way to how British Rail was once owned and controlled by the British government before privatization.

No, they are companies, successful ones that are state owned, that is not the same thing as nationalised industry.

The Deutsche Bahn is a private company, albeit with only one shareholder, the German government.

SNCF is also a private company, a holding company with subsidiaries which run the French railway system.

Perfect analogy being EDF, which is state owned too, that's a private company.

A nationalised rail system would not be floated on the stock exchange.

I told you I was being pedantic.
Friday 2 June 2017 6.32pm
I wouldn't be at all surprised if Blairs NHS PFI and subsequent moves towards privatisation is conforming with EU directives, not that I'm going to scroll through the Lisbon treaty to find out.
Friday 2 June 2017 8.53pm
After all, it was an EU directive that opened the Mail services up to competition 2008/06/EC.

It turns out that directive 91/440 did the same to British Rail.
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