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Deleting history from future lives.

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Monday 29 June 2020 12.20pm
I am curious as to why people are wanting statues removed in general. This is an attempt to change our history by hiding it away. By all means change the wording on a plaque to show things previously hidden (currently links to slavery is the favourite) but by removing statues and replacing them with a more political correct person. This is an attempt to hide history from people by following the doctrine of many dictators "if you remove it from view you can later on remove it from history.".
Monday 29 June 2020 1.03pm
Kevin unless there was large plaques stating names ..dates...I wouldn't have a clue who they are. The only ones I do are Queen Victoria, Florence Nightingale ... Nelson...showing my ignorance after three quarters of a century living in London! Wonder how many statues are in London ?

Anyway the issue of chucking..dumping...statues that have direct or indirect links with the slave trade? Ludicrous idea. Thinking outside the box but really there is a connection....few hundred years time and life on the Moon is established, will the Earth be described as invading the Moon and ruining life for MoonPeople because Earth needed Plutonium or what ever? Five hundred years in the future will MoonPeople revolt and tear down the space cities?

Back to today ..if the people involved in slave trade then, whether it was North Africans bringing poor tribes to the sea ports to be sold, or the main beneficiarys normally rich white lords and frequently ladies. Assuming the realisation hits them they have done the most horrifying thing in selling,murdering human beings. If they pay for hospital to be built...in Africa...should African people not use it? Or schools, universities...

As for our Roman invaders I refuse to go along the wonderful straight byways...or enjoy the underfloor central heating...or their wine. Dunno who they think they are...only here for four hundred yeas after all..
Monday 29 June 2020 2.10pm
Jan, I confess I can make no sense out of most of your post, but will respond to the the 'ludicrous idea' comment, with the words of the historian David Olusoga, who summarises the 'issue' far more succinctly than I ever could. I have pinched a couple of sections from an article written about recent events in his home city, Bristol:

'In 2019, attempts to fix a plaque to the pedestal collapsed after Bristolís Society of Merchant Venturers, the high priests of the Colston cult, insisted on watering down the text, adding qualifications that, it was felt, had the effect of minimising his crimes. Yet what repulsed many about the statue was not that it valorised Colston but that it was silent about his victims, those whose lives were destroyed to build the fortune he lavished upon the city.

Today is the first full day since 1895 on which the effigy of a mass murderer does not cast its shadow over Bristolís city centre. Those who lament the dawning of this day, and who are appalled by what happened on Sunday, need to ask themselves some difficult questions. Do they honestly believe that Bristol was a better place yesterday because the figure of a slave trader stood at its centre? Are they genuinely unable Ė even now Ė to understand why those descended from Colstonís victims have always regarded his statue as an outrage and for decades pleaded for its removal?'
Monday 29 June 2020 2.52pm
It was a wafflingpost I admit Spartacus. I was ineptly trying to show another viewpoint. It was a Shock when I found out years ago about females owning slaves, and it was in previous program by David that pointed out a journal that listed names of traders. Can you point in direction of Davids programme in 2019 , what episode ?
Monday 29 June 2020 4.21pm
I was not referring to his tv programmes (probably still available on iplayer). The words came from one of several thoughtful articles in the Guardian. For some reason, I am having difficulty linking to anything, but a simple search of his name will locate them.
Monday 29 June 2020 6.03pm
Thank you Spartacus.
Monday 29 June 2020 7.19pm
The way I see the issue is that taking down a statue is not changing history. Our history is our history and its complex both in motive and outcome and taking down a statue is not going to change that. Statues arenít history, they are a celebration, a monument paid for by the people which says this person is significant and should be regarded with admiration. So the question is, do we want to celebrate, for example someone like Colson who was a prominent entrepreneur and philanthropist who, by the way, made his money that he gave away by running a business kidnapping and selling into slavery African human beings. Why celebrate such a man with a statue? This man and his actions symbolise something we now feel is unacceptable. That doesnít erase the history of his life or deeds, but it says his life doesnít warrant celebration. Many statues fall in this category and IMO should be removed and replaced by celebrations of the more laudatory aspects of our cultural heratige.
Now there are a few people where the situation is more complex. Churchill held many repugnant views about various groups of people but he was undoubtedly an important positive force in holding this country together during the Second World War. A statue to honour Churchill for his contribution to our nation may be appropriate if it at least recognised on the plaque that his statue celebrates not the man but his deeds during the Second World War. If it were up to me I would put wording on his statue which clarifies his important role during the war despite his unacceptable racial views. That would more accurately reflect the true picture of the man.
Tuesday 30 June 2020 8.49am
I agree Eric.
Tuesday 30 June 2020 10.01am
My Mother did not like Churchill at all, in fact it went deeper than that. But even she admitted his speeches made the country feel like they had a chance against The Hun...Mums phrase not mine.
Tuesday 30 June 2020 1.55pm
Jan the old one wrote:
Can you point in direction of Davids programme in 2019 , what episode ?

BBC iPlayer "Britain's Forgotten Slave Owners"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b062nqpd/britains-forgotten-slave-owners-1-profit-and-loss
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