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Shooting in Walworth Rd

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Thursday 7 August 2008 8.39am
I know I sound like Victor Meldrew, but I cant believe it! AGAIN?? and a sixteen year old arrested? for shooting? What is happening to us?
Thursday 7 August 2008 1.25pm
I thought it was at the costcutter in Camberwell?? Not that it makes much difference, whats happening to the youngsters these days? When i decide to have kids we are not bringing them up in England, it's only going to get worse here.
Thursday 7 August 2008 2.30pm
I CAN believe it. I'm not sure why people are so surprised that London's youth are tearing into each other with knives and guns. In certain sections of society, some young people feel that the only way to get ahead is through illegal means (the alternatives being a life stuck in a low paid job or on benefits). This belief is reinforced by the influences of media (TV, movies, music) and seeing wealth all around them. The resulting lifestyle comes with consequence - one of which is the use of violence and weapons to get things done. The tragedy is that many of the victims of this violence are innocent by-standers rather than violent offenders.

I don't know what the solution is, but harsher sentences for carrying weapons is only a very small piece of the jigsaw. Education (both of parents and children), access to extra-curricular activities (especially sport and the arts), access to meaningful careers advice and the continued regeneration of the urban environment can all contribute. But there will always be people who want an easy route to riches and will live by 50 cents mantra of 'get rich or dry tryin''.
Thursday 7 August 2008 3.39pm
Carmenes82, I think you're right to see economic hopelessness as the route of the problem.

But it seems to me that wanting "an easy route to riches" is utterly endemic in this country - witness our ridiculous obsession with property. For the past decade our entire economy has been founded on the Ponzi scheme that is the UK property market, which has only served to fuel greed while widening further the gap between the haves and have-nots.

Perhaps the property crash we're seeing now - and the ensuing recession/depression - will prove a great leveller. Or, more likely, it will just create even more poverty and misery for us all.
Thursday 7 August 2008 8.33pm
This happened on a road which my bus goes through every day. I saw the shop this evening on my way home - surrounded by police, crime scene tape, TV reporters and camera men, etc...... very dramatic.

This is actually the second murder in the area. There was another one a few weeks back.


Thursday 7 August 2008 9.32pm
i cant see what younsters slugging it out with guns has got to do with the housing market... a very tenuous link there. are we to believe that all these victims are innocent bystanders as the media portrays them?? i dont think so...
Thursday 7 August 2008 10.12pm
You're implying what exactly, boroughpaul? That Ryan Bravo was a violent participant in a gang battle? The idea that he was an "innocent bystander" doesn't come from the media - it comes from Scotland Yard, who said he wasn't involved in gangs. Maybe they're wrong, and maybe you know better. Or maybe you should show Ryan and his family a bit more respect.
Friday 8 August 2008 10.06am
I do see a connection between the failure to regenerate E&C/Walworth; and the rising youth crime rates.

As the Heygate Estate empties of former residents, reports from the estate are that many empty properties are becoming the focus of organised crime, especially drug dealing. Southwark Council's failure to deal with the exodus/demolition is creating a new generation of criminals with a focus on SE1.

Additionally, the extra facilities that were promised as part of the regeneration have failed to materialise: exacerbating the boredom of the youths.

Still, on the bright side - the one thing that they did do (widen the pavements) has resulted in the gangs riding their mopeds down the pavements chasing their victims. At least someone's got some benefit out of it....
Friday 8 August 2008 10.08am
boroughpaul wrote:
are we to believe that all these victims are innocent bystanders as the media portrays them?? i dont think so...
As someone who works on Walworth Road and who has shopped in the Costcutter in question, I find it quite disturbing that if I had been shot I could've been considered guilty of anything but being in the wrong place at the wrong time. If people fire guns, anyone can be hit.

I can assure you that I am not a gangmember and I can't imagine why the police or the press would try to misrepresent anyone as innocent.
Friday 8 August 2008 10.26am
To be fair to boroughpaul I dont think he was implying that this latest innocent victim wasnt an innocent bystander - I think it was more of a general comment about the spate of murders we've seen this year. However I cant agree with his seeming refusal to accept the link between the conditions our kids grow up in and the high levels of these serious crimes (if that is his position).
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